Monday, November 9, 2009

Warhammer Fantasy 3 Trailer

In case you missed it, Fantasy Flight Games has released a new trailer for WFRP 3, the boardgame/RPG $100 experiment coming soon to a gaming store near you.

Interesting stuff (and cool dice), but I still don't think this is going to do it for me. Not my idea of design at all. Frankly, I think WFRP 2 was pretty great as is, and I think this is a risky departure for not much gain. Too pricey, too boardgamey, and too many specialty bits needed to play. I want my gaming to fit in with a book or two, some dice, and whatever I draw on a map. Pewter or paper minis are optional (we had a Klingon Bird of Prey dice from Star Fleet Battles or somesuch represent a player last Friday, and it just gave me a chance to use the Star Trek Fight Music on my playlist).

At this point, I suspect the game is as targeted at FFG's board gamers as it is anyone who enjoyed previous editions of Warhammer Fantasy, perhaps even more so given the radical departure we're seeing.


Rob Conley said...

The killer is the number 100 err 99.95. While quality components can justify a higher price; I can't see any combination of components justify that much of a price increase over a regular RPG. Especially those they talk about in the video.

Plus the system itself seems needlessly gamey. The problem with trying to reward roleplaying with rule benefits is the average players starts gaming system rather roleplaying more.

My prediction is that WFRPG will go down as the Ishtar/Heaven's Gate of RPGs.

Mike said...

I don't know this game looks rad to me.

Gleichman said...

Three immediate thoughts-

1. I think (with great saddness) we're seeing some serious Forge influence here, the whole mechanics to reward role-play thing.

2. A one-up to move the rpg even more towards boardgame seems a reaction to D&D 4E in that it will one or two 'up them' in that trend.

3. Such a radical change of path from the more tradition DH design indicates that they are disappointed at best in where that went.

da Trux said...

my first thoughts on watching the vid is that the game mechanics basically holds the players' hand through everything. every choice you have is pretty much predetermined (although you have several options to choose from) but at the same time is overcomplicated by the number of different dice.

it's like Magic: The Gathering and that old TSR Dragon Dice game combined into one giant abomination.

that being said, i think i would like to play it sometime just to see first-hand how it works and if it is fun; since "fun" is all that matters to me in a game.

The Dude said...

The trailer really didn't give emphasis to Roleplaying IMHO. Rather it focused on FFG's strength, which one of them is excellent stuff - the cards, the dice, trackers, etc. But who can blame 'em.

Yeah, got it it is an RPG, its a new way of taking RPGs - as FFG sees it a radical depature, forging a new path. Yada, Yada, Yada. Ok cool. But here is the thing. I still see board game. Developers intent aside, show me how it plays. If I wanted game aids with my RPG, I'll buy 'em seperately from Paizo Game Mastery stuff (and I have). I'm not at all bashing the fact that WFRP 3e has stuff - I'm actually a fan of a lot of FFG's stuff.

Let me put this way. No matter how much you polish a turd and dress it up with gadgets its still a turd. Right now all I'm seeing from FFG is that WFRP has a bunch of polish, gadgets...

Show that this is not a turd, please.

On another note, doesn't anyone find it rather humorous that of all the games that FFG puts out with all those excellent components, WFRP 3e has card-stock characters instead of miniatures? I mean come on now, Tide of Iron, Battle Lore - these guys do minis very well. Looks like Ye Ole Games Workshop - king of the minis has given the Big No Go in that realm. No of course that's just conjecture on my part. Thoughts?

Anyway, I don't see myself forking out the $108.00 for this (Yeah. $99.50 + Tax and maybe shipping) But I'm willing to give it a shot at least a player. I've got WFRP 2e and I do like the system (1e looked good as well), but haven't a chance to play it so it's really a moot point. But I have the 2e books and know that system, so why should i really but 3e?

Last comment - any thoughts on whether this is the way FFG will go with Space Marine/ Deathwatch when that comes out as the last book in the 40k RPG?

Allright, 'nuff said - thanks for listening.

Stuart said...

You can PDF and BitTorrent the PDF for an RPGs rules. You can't do that with something like Arkham Horror. I'm sure that's a big factor in the direction they're going with WFRPG.

I think it looks like fun - although obviously quite different from a "traditional" RPG.

Andreas Davour said...

If that's a rpg, then I'm obviously in the wrong hobby.

Zzarchov said...

I think everyone focusing on the "bits and tokens" is missing the point.

D&D and every RPG has always had even more bits and tokens, except rather than using them we just write numbers on a page and erase them back and forth.

Rather than a marker for each hit point (I use poker chips), a card for each spell (some basic games had this), and a die for each effect we have expansive character sheets and dozens of special tables.

Instead of writing and erasing things they use tokens, instead of flipping through a dozen books to find the right table you use the special die that has the table results.

You don't NEED the die (you can write out the table) and you don't need the markers or tokens (you can write out a char sheet on a piece of lined paper).

But much like miniatures, just because you don't need them doesn't mean you don't want them because they look cool.

Mike said...

@zzarchov: seconded.

Gleichman said...

No Zzarchov, I *don't* want them.

They cost money, and I'm completely certain that like the cards and silly dice of Deadlands- in the end they are counter-productive both in cost and in result.

David said...

I recognize that others might not enjoy it, but this game sounds like a great idea to me. I have no previous experience with any Warhammer games. I'd love to try this one.

Zzarchov said...

@ Gleichman, then don't buy it.

Its ok to not like a product. If you don't want to buy it, don't. But you don't NEED them anymore than you need the actual boxed set early RPG's came with with their folding paper miniatures to play basic D&D.

As RPG's are a woefully underpriced hobby (word per word you make less than pulp romance, and it takes more thought and you actually have to test what you write for an added expense) I don't really mind paying a fair wage for what I buy.

If I'll pay 80 bucks for a video game that lasts two weeks tops (often a weekend), I've no problem paying a fair price for a roleplaying game.

And If I don't like the box set that comes out first, I'll buy the rulebook when it comes out on its own and just use a character sheet and write some tables rather than using their dice and tokens.

Its not as big a deal as everyone makes out.

Gleichman said...

I think Zzarchov that you're being quite dense. Assuming for example that I only have one issue with the game presented in that trailer.

But I will leave you too it, it's clear that you're making up excuses to justify your interest.

Have fun with that.

Zzarchov said...

I am sorry you feel that way, but there is no sense being all negative about phantom flaws with a product. If you choose to see a need to buy the first release option with the tokens and whatnot to enjoy a product, I endorse that.

If you want to wait until they release just the books and use tables and character sheets instead, do that instead.

It is no different than hardcover and softcover of books. Sure the hardcover is more expensive for the same thing, but if you like hardcovers or want the book go hardcover. If not wait and buy softcover. But it seems rather silly to complain about how extravagent, overpriced and wasteful a hardcover edition is.

Mike said...

If you want to wait until they release just the books and use tables and character sheets instead, do that instead.

Is FFG going to do that, though?

My impression was that they weren't, which leaves you with the choice of the $100 boxed set, or nothing.

games workshop warhammer said...

The Public Quest is said to be one of these. Of course, there are a lot of monsters that you can find in one place. If you are also doing the power leveling, it is also important to use the Area-of-Effect as well.