Over at Wondrous Imaginings, Joe asks if when discussing or playing Pathfinder, we refer to it as "D&D" or "Dungeons & Dragons". That's possibly the next game up for our group, but even though several of us like Pathfinder and appreciate Paizo very much, it doesn't get the name of D&D. It's not a knock on Pathfinder, it's just I don't know why I'd call it that unless I was going out of my way to call it that. It would just confuse people. We know it's a descendant/continuation of the game Wizards of the Coast put out between 2003 & 2008, and that's enough.
I could see, though, Pathfinder being called D&D if D&D is used as a generic descriptor, much like some people in the southern U.S. refer to all soft drinks as Coke, which can lead to the following exchange:
Southerner: Want a Coke?
Northerner: Sure.
Southerner: You want Pepsi, Mountain Dew, or Dr. Pepper?
Northerner: ?
The RPG equivalent might be close to the same:
Gamer 1: Hey, we're thinking of playing some D&D on the weekends. You want in?
Gamer 2: Sure!
Gamer 1: Awesome. We're thinking either Pathfinder, Rolemaster, or Exalted. Thoughts?
Gamer 2: ?
Just some idle thoughts as we kill time waiting for Gen Con...
14 comments:
Wouldn't the southerner offer a Mr. Pibb, rather than a Dr. Pepper?
Reminds me of the days when friends would ask: "Wanna play D&D?" And the response would often be: "Sure, I'll grab my Marvel Super Heroes game."
@joseph: Clearly, just a hypothetical example. :)
Gamer 1: Hey, we're thinking of playing some D&D on the weekends. You want in?
Gamer 2: Sure!
Gamer 1: Awesome. We're thinking either Pathfinder, Labyrinth Lord, or Swords and Wizardry White Box. Thoughts?
I think this is a more likely and perfectly reasonable statement.
@David: Certainly. But it's still a generic descriptor that was a brand name, not unlike aspirin.
At the game stores it's Pathfinder.
Well I tell family I'm busy on Tuesday it's D&D.
Otherwise I'd have to explain "It's a roleplaying game, like D&D."
As a northerner who has lived in the south for the past (roughly) six years, I don't hear the "Coke as a generic soft drink label" hardly ever.
For another example, though, you do hear Kleenex used as the word for tissue, and Band-Aid for all sticky bandages, and so on.
To add to the discussion: I can't see why anybody would call Pathfinder D&D instead of Pathfinder. People don't call Labyrinth Lord or OSRIC D&D, and those games are both more D&D than Pathfinder is.
I don't agree. The situation with D&D/Pathfinder is like if Coke changed its flavor, then another company would sell something that tastes just like Coke, except it isn't called Coke, for legal issues.
So which one is the Coke, the one with the name "Coke" on the can or the one that actually tastes like Coke?
For me it's the latter.
Actually, I agree. I play Pathfinder, I don't play D&D anymore. I think it's important to make the distinction because some of my players do play 4e on occasion.
Man, who knew there'd be some strong opinions on this?
I think D&D works just fine as a generic term for tabletop rpgs when talking to non-gamers. My wife and my mother couldn't care less what ruleset I'm using when I go out for "D&D night" with the guys.
Well sort of, but i can see it another way too
you're making the assumption that "D&D" is in and of itself ,a good description of one game, it's not
even ignoring the various editions ramblings
"hey we're playing D&D this weekend, want in?"
"Sure"
"ok Ravenloft, Greyhawk, Forgoten Realms, Al Quadiem, Darksun, Eberon or,...."
Sure these are just "settings" but many of them have just as many rules adjustments and modifications from the core game as pathfinder does.
Ravenloft especially has a TON of changed powers & spells. Eberon is practically a different game all together.
@ Nick: To add to the discussion: I can't see why anybody would call Pathfinder D&D instead of Pathfinder. People don't call Labyrinth Lord or OSRIC D&D, and those games are both more D&D than Pathfinder is.
Actually, as I've been recruiting for my LL game, I've been calling it D&D as much as I have Labyrinth Lord. Most of my players had no idea about LL or any of the retro-clones, but they got a good picture of what the game involves when I called it D&D. Now that we're playing, it's just the game.
Especially for older players getting back into the hobby, calling it D&D and LL has made a huge difference in their willingness to play. Most of them don't want to learn a new set of rules. When they see that it's basically the same as what they played years ago, though, they're happy to jump into the game.
I posted about this a while back on my blog too: Random Generation.
Ultimately, we should call things what they are, especially if we aim to serve our selected branch of the hobby by spreading the word. :)
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